What a land professional thinks of the plans

We have received a copy of a letter sent by a member of the Bryn Euryn User Association to the Council’s Countryside Department. The author owns a property backing on to the Bryn and is also Chartered Surveyor & Arbitrator, well acquainted with land and grazing issues in his professional capacity. Please find below a couple of interesting extracts: -

I am writing this letter to you as a neighbour. I have to hand a copy of the Title the county holds for the 'BRYN'. Upon inspection of the Title there is a clear restrictive covenant which the county must adhere to.

The Conwy County Borough Council are successors to the Colwyn Bay Urban District Council
who held a lease for the 'Bryn' from 1925. That same council purchased the Freehold in 1932.

The restrictive covenant contained in the lease and Freehold title is referred to as clause 5. It
specifically reflects the use at that time and the reason for a Local Authority to acquire lands for
use as possible open space for leisure and recreation. The content of the clause prevents any
trade, business, profession or occupation whatever occurring upon the land other than:- Club
Room, pavilion, cafe or refreshment room associated with the leisure and recreation use.

This clause prevents the council from contemplating the fencing out areas of the 'BRYN' and the
occupation by animals provided by other parties on licence or other agreements whether for
monetary gain or free.

With reference to a similar local case: -

Planners instated that a Planning Application be submitted for change of use from recreation to agriculture. The proposed use of part of the 'BRYN' for agriculture use (grazing by any animal) will therefore necessitate a Planning Application with notice to every neighbour of the Application.

Please note that the original planning permitted relevant to 1947 was leisure recreation not
agriculture and has never since 1925 been used for agriculture.

Based on the two reasons in this letter I would suggest you seek legal advice and Planners
advice.

I obviously object to your proposal for the 'BRYN' and will advise the Objectors Association
similarly.

I hope to receive a response from you, in the meantime I will monitor the situation and if necessary advise the Association to apply to Court for an injunction if the Council breaches it's
own restrictive covenants and regulatory process.

We are very grateful for this expert advice and trust it will be considered by the council in their increasingly ‘unfeasibility report’. Indeed it seems to many of us that the council is just wasting time and money on an ill conceived plan which is massively opposed by almost all the users of the Bryn?

Minutes of the Open Meeting to discuss grazing on Bryn Euryn and the Inaugural AGM of the Bryn Euryn Users Association, held on 7th September 2009 at Colwyn Bay County Cricket Club, Rhos-on-Sea.

Invited Guests:
David Jones MP
Darren Millar AM
Cllr David Roberts (Management Advisory Group - Chairman)
Cllr Philip Edwards (MAG member)
Cllr Merfyn Thomas (MAG member)
Cllr Roger Parry (MAG member)
Helen Jowett (Senior Countryside Officer)
Alun Jones (Bryn Euryn Warden)
Hilary Kehoe (PONT)
Community Beat Manager PC Richard Ward-Davies (Llandrillo-yn-Rhos)
Community Support Officer PCSO Louise Wigglesworth (Mochdre)

Bryn Euryn Users Association representatives:

Gill Harvey – Chair
Sharon Davies – Vice Chair
Susan Davies – Secretary
Kath Williams – Treasurer

Apologies:

John Osley (Countryside Council for Wales)
Tom Gravett (Countryside and Rights of way Manager)

Introductions:

The meeting was opened by Gill Harvey welcoming all guests and members of the public to the open meeting to discuss grazing on Bryn Euryn. Each guest introduced themselves to the audience and explained their positions in respect to the issue.

David Jones MP congratulated the Association on its formation and the aims to protect and preserve the area. He stated that fencing off the area would reduce people’s enjoyment and have a detrimental material effect. While he understood the reason for conservation, quangocrats should be accountable and ensure due weight should be given to the immense public feeling.

Cllr Merfyn Thomas supported David Jones and told the audience that he had voted against the feasibility study. Cllr Phil Edwards said the proposal for the feasibility study to introduce grazing was put forward by the council officers and the CCW. He said they had to look at the evidence before making a decision but that there were people in the area who supported grazing. He did not wish to spoil the enjoyment of the area but added that it might be decided to adjust the scheme to make it acceptable. Cllr David Roberts said he had voted in favour of the investigation but that it could either ‘go away’ or be amended, but that things had to change. He acknowledged that there is a problem with anti-social behaviour on the Bryn. Cllr Roger Parry said he had voted against the feasibility study, calling it a ‘crazy idea’.

Helen Jowett, speaking for Conwy Countryside Services, said her role is to oversee the work of the wardens and is currently working on the feasibility study. She had brought leaflets for anyone to take which explained the facts about the grazing and said they had not expected so many objections and that she was concerned about so much incorrect information. She said the local authority has a duty to maintain the grassland which has SSSI status but also has to balance its use by people. The feasibility study is looking at grazing one or two meadows with five ponies or donkeys per meadow for two months in the spring and four months summer/autumn. They will look at the cost of fencing, water, shelter and maintenance of the fencing and gates, as well as the management of the live stock and access for the public. Alun Jones said there are two aims, enjoyment for the public and the maintenance of the SSSI. He referred to there having been grazing in the 1950’s but this was disputed by several members of the audience, and went on to say that he didn’t see why it would cause a problem. Hilary Kehoe explained that she facilitates grazing and works with farmers and conservation bodies to provide animals for various sites in the area, Anglesey being one of the most recent.

General Discussion:

Gill Harvey to start the discussions said that at the moment Bryn Euryn has open access and that fencing would spoil the area. There are animal welfare as well as public health and safety issues to be considered.

A member of the audience asked who has a vote on the MAG committee, and it was answered that the councillors as well as outside bodies vote. Cllr Merfyn Thomas said there is so much pressure on open space that the Bryn should not be fenced. Although the council is facing a £5 million budget cut back per annum in the next few years. The fencing would cost £28,000 upwards, an 8 year payback period bearing in mind the £4,000 current cost of cutting the area.

Iris Roberts, a local teacher, said the scouts and children all use the site to play and that fencing would restrict this as livestock would pose a risk.

It was pointed out that vandals already use saws to cut down trees and that both fencing and livestock would be at risk.

The warden was asked what evidence he had of grazing in recent years and confirmed he didn’t have any but that aerial photos from the 1950’s highlighted the extent of current scrub encroachment on the meadow grassland.

Cllr David Roberts said there needs to be more diversity, not just dog owners. The area needs to be opened up to ramblers, schools, colleges and to allow children to see the animals. Responding, Sharon Davies said the Bryn is regularly used at present by all these organisations, and that the scouts had expressed concerns about the plan to introduce grazing as it may stop them using it. She added that animals can be seen at numerous areas elsewhere.

Charles Cubbin said the ponies or donkeys would not be safe due to the vandals and large number of dogs. The very loud burglar alarm on the cottage which recently sounded could cause livestock to charge the fences in terror. Also the restricted area would prevent ponies moving out of the way of any trouble, adding that the warden is not available at weekends, which is when the trouble usually occurs. He went on the say that he has a booklet describing the grassland in the 1950's when it managed itself.

PC Ward-Davies said the police are aware of the anti social problems on the Bryn and has seen the fires, but has not seen any evidence of needles behind the ruins. He urged people to report any sightings of problems as their statistics are based on calls received. A member of the audience said they had made calls but had had no response. It was noted that the police have concerns for the safety of the animals and who would be responsible for them.

David Jones MP was asked, as a lawyer, who would be responsible for the ponies and liable should a member of the public be kicked, and also regarding the droppings which could pose a risk of tetanus. It was also questioned who would provide the public liability insurance. David Jones replied that the simple solution is not to place livestock there and to listen to what the people say.

A member of the audience described himself as a responsible dog owner and said he was concerned over the fencing proposals, as there are few areas available for dogs to run free especially as the council are reducing them all the time. He added that animals would be a risk to dogs and prevent them from getting proper exercise while still being under control.

When questioned as to whether stock holders had been approached to see if there was any interest, Helen Jowett said they hadn’t, while Alun Jones said there had been some interest from a donkey owner. In response to the question as to how much the feasibility study was costing, the reply was, only time, council man hours. There were concerns by many that this was still a waste of time and money. The warden asked for people to be open minded.

Cllr Jennifer Geddes, from the audience, said wild ponies would stay away from people and were widely used in conservation as a means for controlling Green Oak and other scrub species. She then added that safety must come first.

The issue of ragwort was discussed. Horse owners stressed the danger to livestock as it damages the liver and ultimately causes death. The council response was that the ponies wouldn’t eat it but that the responsibility for its removal would rest with the grazier. It was pointed out that ragwort is a valuable source of nectar for insects including several endangered species, and that due to it being away from agricultural land it is in an ideal position. Concerns were raised about the cutting back of the meadow while the plants were still flowering and trees felled at a time when birds are nesting. The warden replied that the mowing takes place after the peak flowering period and is needed for scrub control. When asked why there is a need to control it, he relied, that some is acceptable but that too much encroaches on the rare grassland. Many people pointed out that the grassland hadn’t been grazed prior to the introduction of cutting in recent years, yet had still survived. The warden said their main priority is the upper meadow. When asked about how much the council would charge a grazier, Helen Jowett responded that a license would be issued but that they could not charge as there is a restriction over business use.

There was general concern expressed over the MAG meetings especially regarding the recent informal meeting held on site with no minutes when the feasibility study was agreed with a majority vote. Questions were asked as to lack of scrutiny, access of minutes and why nothing is available on the website. It was commented on as being undemocratic to vote on such an important issue at an informal meeting and secretive. Helen Jowett said past minutes were available from her on request.

Richard Raynor asked why councillors don’t reply to letters sent by constituents. Cllr David Roberts replied that he had a condition which meant he couldn’t view computer screens, and left the meeting, despite Mr Raynor trying to assure him that he hadn’t written to him.

Concerns were raised regarding the safety of the access road which was viewed as currently in poor condition. In response to questions it was ascertained that there are no quotes for fencing or water as yet, but that bowsers may be used. The feasibility study is to be completed by November as the Countryside staff have other priorities.


Donald Gorst pointed out that ladies use the Bryn with their dogs and meet with others to socialise. Fencing and livestock would deter many from enjoying this beneficial pastime.

Dr Keith Owen apologised for leaving the meeting early and reminded the officials of the huge amount of goodwill they currently have with volunteers clearing litter and notifying them and the police of problems. He said the council should work with the public to address valid concerns or risk the loss of this goodwill.

David Jones MP apologised for leaving early as he had another meeting to attend. He went on the say that the MAG members need to understand that the fencing and livestock proposals are deeply unpopular when they come to vote on the issue.

A motion to reject the grazing proposal was carried with a unanimous vote.

Darren Millar AM apologised for his late arrival due to a prior commitment. He questioned why the council was still continuing with the feasibility study with so many public objections and would they consult with the public and other stakeholders. Any decision would need to be democratic as even with grants from the CCW to help with costs, it would still ultimately be the people who will pay. He added we should resist this threat to an open public space especially as Bryn Euryn is the jewel in the crown of the area.

Bryn Euryn Users Association

Gill Harvey asked that the Association be formalised in order for the users to be represented on the MAG committee. The constitution of the new association was read by Susan Davies. This was accepted by a unanimous vote. The committee members were proposed, seconded and elected by a show of hands as listed above.

After a brief discussion it was voted that funds should be raised by subscription and that donations would be welcome to help meet running costs.

Gill Harvey thanked all guests and members of the audience for attending and closed the meeting.

Following the meeting, the police were given cans and two saws used by vandals the previous two weeks on the Bryn. They hoped they would be able to retrieve finger print evidence.

The date of the next meeting is yet to be confirmed.

Feasibility Report

The council have advised a copy of the feasibility report will be given to us a week before the vote by the Management Advisory Group.

Would people like to see it publish here?

Is there any benefit holding a meeting to discuss findings? Is there time?

Should the council perhaps be publishing the report and carrying out public consultation themselves before taking any vote? Perhaps seeing the overwhelming objections to their plans expressed at the recent meeting they already know what most people think, in which case why are they bothering?

Date Set for Next Management Advisory Group Meeting

The Council have advised the next meeting of Bryn Euryn LNR Management Advisory Group to discuss feasibility study will be Monday 23rd November 2009

Hopefully the feasibility report will be made available for the public to review and comment on before this vital decision is made - we will let you know!

Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve

At the recent Bryn Euryn User Assoication there was outrage at the councils claims as to when, if ever, the Bryn was last grazed. Supporters present told the warden that there had been no grazing for 60 to 80 years - the council admitted they had no evidence to proven when it was last grazed so why do they keep on saying the same old thing?

Lets hope this money is spent on paths as stated rather than the grazing proposals.

From the council's 'Buttetin' delivered to all houses and on their website http://www.conwy.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=143&doc=24879&Language=1



Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve in Rhos on Sea, is managed by the Council’s Countryside and Rights of Way Service.

Full of history and archaeological significance and enjoyed by many local people, Bryn Euryn is a designated Site of Special Scientific Interest for the wild flowers that grow on its limestone grasslands. As part of the Tidy Towns Initiative, Conwy Council has allocated £5,000 to improve some of the footpaths on the site including the summit trail, the contour trail around the Bryn and paths coming from Dinerth Road onto the hill. Improvements to steps, surfacing and waymarking are also planned and a new interpretation panel in the car park with more information on the various trails. The designated grassland on Bryn Euryn is currently threatened by the encroachment of trees and scrub. When mechanical mowing and raking started in 1996 the site had scrubbed-over significantly because there had been no grazing since at least the 1950s. Mowing and raking has improved the grassland for flowers such as the cowslips and orchids, which many walkers on the Bryn are now able to enjoy.

The Council is now looking into the feasibility of reintroducing grazing livestock as a more natural and sustainable way of maintaining the grassland. A number of issues are being considered,such as cost, animal welfare, fencing/gates and public opinion.

If you have any questions about these projects please contact the Warden, Alun Jones, by email alun.rhys.jones@conwy.gov.uk or telephone (01492) 575200

AN MP has blasted “quangocrats”

From this weeks North Wales Pioneer
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/78407/mp-says-scrap-bryn-euryn-fencing-plans.aspx


MP says scrap Bryn Euryn fencing plans
Published date: 09 September 2009 Published by: Anna Glover


MP has blasted “quangocrats” who plan to fence off a popular nature reserve.
Campaigning walkers have battled to stop plans to introduce livestock to Bryn Euryn, Rhos-on-Sea. In June the Pioneer reported how the management committee of the historic beauty spot, discussed protecting a rare form of grass by creating two paddocks with sheep, ponies or donkeys.

This week 200 protestors gathered at Colwyn Bay Cricket Club during a meeting of the Bryn Euryn Users’ Association. Councillors, politicians and council officials also attended.

Speaking at the meeting, David Jones, MP for Clwyd West, said: “Bryn Euryn is tremendously popular with local people, who have a huge amount of enjoyment from using it as a free, safe and pleasant place to take exercise and walk their dogs. Almost inevitably, when people are enjoying something, there will be a quangocrat telling them that they shouldn’t be doing it, which appears to be the case here.

“The strength of feeling shown at this meeting should be enough to convince the Bryn Euryn committee that, whilst local people fully support the proper management of the reserve, they are strongly opposed to any moves that would result in any part of it being fenced off, or livestock put on it.”

Some areas of Bryn Euryn attained Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) status, due to the rare limestone grass. Wardens at the site claim the grass was originally maintained by livestock, which would be more environmentally friendly in the long run.

Darren Millar, AM for Clwyd West, said: “There are precious few open spaces as it is in our locality, and many are under threat from proposals in the Conwy Local Development Plan. Bryn Euryn is a jewel in the crown of Rhos-on-Sea which we cannot afford to lose access to. These plans should be scrapped.”

Bryn Euryn User Association meeting

Many thanks to all those who took the time to attend the first meeting of the new Bryn Euryn User Association, minutes will be posted shortly.

As well as the local MP and AM we would like to thank the local councillors who made the effort to attend and give us their thoughts on the proposals. The council Countryside staff who attended and made the effort to put forward their plans should be thanked for attending and doing their best to explain proposals and answer the numerous questions.

Council must scrap Nature Reserve grazing plans

Many thanks to Clwyd West AM Darren Millar for attending the first meeting of the Bryn Euryn User Association, his contributions were well received and captured the mood of the majority of those present

From his blogsite http://www.darrenmillaram.com/index.php?sectionid=3&pagenumber=436

Clwyd West AM Darren Millar has called for controversial plans to introduce grazing on a popular nature reserve in his constituency to be scrapped.
Residents in Rhos-on-Sea have been incensed by local authority proposals which could see large parts of the Bryn Euryn Nature Reserve fenced off and put to grazing.

Speaking at a packed public meeting in Rhos last night, Darren Millar said, ‘There is a huge democratic deficit here.

‘These grazing proposals are clearly unacceptable to the vast majority of local people and yet the council is determined to explore these proposals further.

‘As well as being a nature reserve, Bryn Euryn is an important community facility which is enjoyed by large numbers of residents and visitors to the area. It should be accessible to all, including responsible dog owners who use it to exercise their pets.

‘The council must listen to the views of local people and manage the reserve in a way which respects the current usage and allows the people to continue to enjoy it for many years to come.

‘There are precious few open spaces as it is in our locality, and many are under threat from proposals in the Conwy Local Development Plan. Bryn Euryn is a jewel in the crown of Rhos-on-Sea which we cannot afford to lose access to. These plans should be scrapped.’

Bryn Euryn – a positive development

From David Jones' blogsite http://davidjonesblog.com/2009/09/07/a-positive-development/


To Rhos on Sea this evening, and the inaugural meeting of the Bryn Euryn Users’ Association.
The assembly room at the cricket club was packed with local residents and also attended by local councillors and council officials, who can have been left in no doubt whatever that the proposal to fence off the Bryn and place livestock on it was deeply unwelcome.

The Association is a tremendously positive development for the future of Bryn Euryn; I am very optimistic that the management committee’s misguided proposal will soon be kicked into touch.

Many thanks to David for attending, his excellent contributions were very welcome.

Information issued by Conwy Countryside and Rights of Way Service

In the interest of providing balanced information please see below the handout the Council prepared for the first meeting of the Bryn Euryn User Association.

What's being looked into at Bryn Euryn and why?

Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve (LNR) is also designated as a site of special scientific interest (SSSI) due to its species rich calcareous grassland which supports a range of special flora and fauna. As such the local authority has a duty to manage this site to best maintain the grasslands whilst also managing the site for public enjoyment.

The reason for looking into the feasibility of introducing grazing to maintain the grassland is that this would reduce the invasion of 'improved' species such as ryegrass and prevent scrub encroachment. The action of grazing animals would be different from just cutting and raking off (which is the current management practice at this site), it would help encourage species diversity and the dung provides food for up to 16 different types of insect.

Types of grazing system being investigated as part of the feasibility study

Possibly five ponies/donkeys grazing in each of one or possibly two meadow areas, each for possibly two months in the spring and possibly a further four months in the late summer/early autumn.

The feasibility study will consider how this works at other sites with public access.
Cost and types of fencing for livestock plus longterm maintenance of this will need to be considered as part of the study. For example, the design of the fencing and gates could be laid out to avoid pinch points and corners where contact between people and ponies could occur. Gates could be suitable for access for the less able and pushchairs where appropriate.

Animal welfare to be considered as part of the feasibility study

A grazier would have overall responsibility for the welfare of any livestock. On some other sites volunteer lookers, trained through PONT on one or two day courses, have helped to support the grazier by checking the animals when they are walking in the area.

The feasibility of a water supply and shelter will need to be considered. A bowser may be a suitable water supply. Again this would need to be investigated.

Grazing policies are prepared for public sites with grazing. Examples from other sites are available.

Public access and dogs to be considered as part of the feasibility study

As a Local Nature Reserve it is recognised that this is an important area for the local community and general public for recreation. The feasibility study will have to be aware of this. There should ideally be no reduction in access for people or dogs. On some other sites it has been found that ponies avoid the more public areas in the day and graze them when they are quiet.

Dogs however should always be under control on sites with public access even if they are not on a lead. PONT is able to fund training for dog owners to help them to teach their dogs to behave with livestock. Skills learned through these courses can be useful when walking anywhere in the countryside.

The feasibility study will need to take into consideration the use of the site by the local community alongside the needs of the grasslands in terms of maintaining the botanical interest of the site. It will also need to consider issues such as anti social behaviour at the site, cost implications of management regimes, availability of graziers, health and safety.... alongside much more.

At present no decision has been made to introduce grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve, the feasibility of this is being investigated.

Case studies of other sites are available on request from Hilary Kehoe.
Anglesey Grazing Animals Partnership
Ynys Mon Local Grazing Scheme Coordinator
NWWT Office,
376 High Street,
Bangor.
Gwynedd.
LL57 1YE

Phone: 07726358228
E-mail: agap@wildlifetrustswales.orq
Website: agap-ynysmon.co.uk

If you have further queries specific to Bryn Euryn LNR please contact the staff at

Conwy Countryside and Rights of Way Service:

Alun Jones alun.rhys.jones@conwy.gov.uk

Helen Jowett helen.jowett@conwy.gov.uk

Tom Gravett tom.gravett@conwy.gov.uk