Please see below an email to Brynle Williams AM and his reply. As you may or may not know as well as being an AM he is a farmer with particular interest and experience with ponies, as such he knows what he is taking about and we are grateful for his reply.
From: Williams, Brynle (Assembly Member) Brynle.Williams@wales.gov.uk
Subject: RE: Pony grazing on Bryn Euryn Nature Reserve
Date: Thursday, 30 July, 2009, 2:57 PM
Dear ??????
Thank you for your email sent yesterday regarding the above. I am in full support of your views. I have already spoken to David Jones MP to ensure he is aware of this matter.
It is my intention to send a letter agreeing with your concerns to Conwy Countryside Services and relaying my view that it is not a good idea to introduce ponies or donkeys onto this open area that is presently enjoyed by local residents.
I shall forward a copy of my correspondence to you for information. I hope this course of action is agreeable to you at this stage. Please do not hesitate to contact me further should you feel I can be of further assistance on this issue, or indeed any other matter.
Kind regards
Brynle
From: ????????
Sent: 29 July 2009 10:50
To: Williams, Brynle (Assembly Member)
Subject: Pony grazing on Bryn Euryn Nature Reserve
Dear Mr Williams
I am writing to you both as AM and also as a farmer with a keen interest in ponies. I don’t know whether you are aware that our local Conwy Countryside Services are looking into the feasibility of introducing grazing ponies or donkeys onto our local nature reserve Bryn Euryn, Rhos-on-Sea. This is an area which has been an open public space with no grazing since the 1930’s and is widely used by the residents for exercising their children and dogs, and which is crisscrossed with footpaths. Our local MP, David Jones has been very supportive as have some of our local councillors especially one who keeps his own horses and ponies. However, in a truly bullish manner, the Bryn Euryn Management Committee have seen fit to proceed with a feasibility study at council tax payers expense despite the local outcry for common sense to prevail.
One resident with 50yrs farming experience has made the following points and I would be very grateful for your thoughts on the matter.
1. Due to the size of the area and type of grass the ponies would need supplementary feed. (Countryside Council for Wales have stated by email that this would not be allowed as it would introduce nutrients which would adversely affect the rare grassland, they state the two areas at approx 2.25 ha each at 5 ponies or donkeys per enclosure. They suggest grazing early spring and again late summer, early autumn.)
2. Water provision would have to be tamperproof to prevent soiling or small children drowning.
3. Shelter would be needed to protect them from the elements and flies.
4. The large amounts of ragwort would need to be cleared.
5. The shallow soil would soon be eroded by hooves.
6. Well meaning members of the public are likely to feed titbits which could lead to the ponies becoming demanding.
7. As the area has a long history of late night drinking and fire lighting, what responsible owner would leave their animals vulnerable to mistreatment?
There is also the cost factor, estimated at £30,000 just for the fencing and kiss gates required, and these will have to be very impressive to keep out dogs from the surrounding woodland, the large number of which has ruled out grazing with sheep. No grazing fee could be charged as a covenant forbids any business use.
I would be very grateful if you could visit our blog site at http://save-our-bryn.blogspot.com to see the map, strength of public feeling and information we have found through the freedom of information act.
Yours sincerely
???????
Thursday 30 July 2009
Wednesday 29 July 2009
Re Grazing on Bryn Euryn
Congratulations to Mrs K Williams for her published letter in todays Pioneer. This letter has also been forwarded to us and has been sent to the local papers:
My husband and I have been farming for 50 years and have kept cattle, sheep and goats and horses, ponies and donkeys throughout this time, and know that keeping animals in the confined areas proposed, and with unlimited public access and very limited supervision would never work.
Due to the size of the proposed grazing areas and the type of grass, even 2 or 3 ponies would require supplementary feeding after about 3 weeks. The cost of eleven gates and all the fencing, (you can't just use barbed wire where the public has access) would run into many thousands of pounds. A water supply would need to be provided, and need to be tamperproof to prevent soiling or small children drowning. Shelter from the elements and flies would also need to be provided and the areas would need to be cleared of the large amount of ragwort which is extremely poisonous to ponies and donkeys.
The shallow soil would soon be exposed due to hooves cutting through the grass roots, leading to erosion and thus long term damage.
The animals would be open to abuse caused by mis-feeding by some well-meaning members of the public, ponies fed tit-bits often become very demanding or even aggressive and someone could be kicked or bitten.
As retired farmers we have experienced first hand all the above points and feel that no responsible animal owner would graze animals in such a location when there are plenty of more suitable places to rent for £10 -£15 per animal per week. Due to the strength of public feeling against the proposal any gates and fencing are likely to be demolished as fast as they are put up and the timber used on the many camp fires that regularly appear in the woods.
How would the emergency services get up to an injured person or animal? It would be very difficult to negotiate a kissing gate while carrying a stretcher.
A vast amount of public money should not be spent on a whim, which when investigated, is an obvious non starter, when the cry is, there is not enough money for police, schools and hospitals.
Thank you for this informed letter. Most of us have no practical experience of keeping livestock so a farmers views are very welcome.
My husband and I have been farming for 50 years and have kept cattle, sheep and goats and horses, ponies and donkeys throughout this time, and know that keeping animals in the confined areas proposed, and with unlimited public access and very limited supervision would never work.
Due to the size of the proposed grazing areas and the type of grass, even 2 or 3 ponies would require supplementary feeding after about 3 weeks. The cost of eleven gates and all the fencing, (you can't just use barbed wire where the public has access) would run into many thousands of pounds. A water supply would need to be provided, and need to be tamperproof to prevent soiling or small children drowning. Shelter from the elements and flies would also need to be provided and the areas would need to be cleared of the large amount of ragwort which is extremely poisonous to ponies and donkeys.
The shallow soil would soon be exposed due to hooves cutting through the grass roots, leading to erosion and thus long term damage.
The animals would be open to abuse caused by mis-feeding by some well-meaning members of the public, ponies fed tit-bits often become very demanding or even aggressive and someone could be kicked or bitten.
As retired farmers we have experienced first hand all the above points and feel that no responsible animal owner would graze animals in such a location when there are plenty of more suitable places to rent for £10 -£15 per animal per week. Due to the strength of public feeling against the proposal any gates and fencing are likely to be demolished as fast as they are put up and the timber used on the many camp fires that regularly appear in the woods.
How would the emergency services get up to an injured person or animal? It would be very difficult to negotiate a kissing gate while carrying a stretcher.
A vast amount of public money should not be spent on a whim, which when investigated, is an obvious non starter, when the cry is, there is not enough money for police, schools and hospitals.
Thank you for this informed letter. Most of us have no practical experience of keeping livestock so a farmers views are very welcome.
Monday 27 July 2009
Letter to the Paper
We've been sent a copy of this excellent letter to the papers,
Bryn Euryn grazing feasibility study
Dear Editor
How incredible that the Bryn Euryn Management Advisory Group have taken the mulish decision to embark on a feasibility study re the grazing of livestock on the nature reserve! This, in the face of, maybe churlishly because of, the groundswell of public opinion, beggars belief. I am a regular dog-walker on the Bryn but at this point can detach myself from my personal disappointment at the prospect of curtailed enjoyment of this public amenity. This is now an issue that every local tax/rate-payer should be sitting up and taking notice of.
The MAG claim maintenance of the Bryn has cost £4K in the last year. If this amount includes the expense of scrub clearance at the summit and in the woodland, involving use of a quad bike for access, how can this be a cost that would be eradicated by the use of grazing livestock? If this cost is purely for the twice yearly cutting of the calcareous grassland areas being singled out, I would suggest they are probably paying too much and could get the job done considerably cheaper. Environmental groups actually endorse the use of wild rabbits for grazing of calcareous grassland (Source: BugLife).
Minutes of the MAG meeting held on 23 April this year refer to funding of £5K from Conwy Council’s Tidy Town budget, which together with further funding from the Countryside Service budget has been earmarked to upgrade footpaths and revamp way markers. It would be deplorable if any of this finance was diverted to fund the fencing and water piping that would be required for a grazing scheme. There would be no income generated from livestock owners as this public land cannot legally be used for business purpose. Indeed, the council may find themselves liable for any problems arising from animals being left unattended there, together with the cost of damage from increased usage to the unadopted road leading to the grassland.Anyone, with an ounce of common sense, can see that this scheme is not economically viable nor environmentally necessary. Why on earth are the MAG committee members now indulging themselves with the expense of this feasibility study? They might be better advised studying the feasibility of their re-election prospects!
Yours faithfully
Bryn Euryn grazing feasibility study
Dear Editor
How incredible that the Bryn Euryn Management Advisory Group have taken the mulish decision to embark on a feasibility study re the grazing of livestock on the nature reserve! This, in the face of, maybe churlishly because of, the groundswell of public opinion, beggars belief. I am a regular dog-walker on the Bryn but at this point can detach myself from my personal disappointment at the prospect of curtailed enjoyment of this public amenity. This is now an issue that every local tax/rate-payer should be sitting up and taking notice of.
The MAG claim maintenance of the Bryn has cost £4K in the last year. If this amount includes the expense of scrub clearance at the summit and in the woodland, involving use of a quad bike for access, how can this be a cost that would be eradicated by the use of grazing livestock? If this cost is purely for the twice yearly cutting of the calcareous grassland areas being singled out, I would suggest they are probably paying too much and could get the job done considerably cheaper. Environmental groups actually endorse the use of wild rabbits for grazing of calcareous grassland (Source: BugLife).
Minutes of the MAG meeting held on 23 April this year refer to funding of £5K from Conwy Council’s Tidy Town budget, which together with further funding from the Countryside Service budget has been earmarked to upgrade footpaths and revamp way markers. It would be deplorable if any of this finance was diverted to fund the fencing and water piping that would be required for a grazing scheme. There would be no income generated from livestock owners as this public land cannot legally be used for business purpose. Indeed, the council may find themselves liable for any problems arising from animals being left unattended there, together with the cost of damage from increased usage to the unadopted road leading to the grassland.Anyone, with an ounce of common sense, can see that this scheme is not economically viable nor environmentally necessary. Why on earth are the MAG committee members now indulging themselves with the expense of this feasibility study? They might be better advised studying the feasibility of their re-election prospects!
Yours faithfully
Sunday 26 July 2009
Who voted for the feasibility study?
A supporter has sent us a copy of a freedom of information request sent off to the council, we'll post the response here as soon as we get it! We understand a few more will be following as there are a lot of unhappy rate payers with questions to ask!
Keep up the good work.
To CCBC Freedom of Information Unit
Freedom of Information Request re Bryn Euryn
In order to allow members of the public to make informed choices as to which councillors they wish to vote in or out at the next elections, we need to know whether our elected representatives are actually representing us or perhaps pursuing their own agendas.
Therefore, further to the proposals by the Countryside Department to use part of Bryn Euryn for grazing, I am requesting under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, to know:
The identity of all councillors as well as any other organisations who have voted on this subject.
Exactly which way each named councillor and (if applicable) non elected representative has voted.
Would you please confirm receipt of this email by return and respond with a full answer as soon as possible.
Regards,
Keep up the good work.
To CCBC Freedom of Information Unit
Freedom of Information Request re Bryn Euryn
In order to allow members of the public to make informed choices as to which councillors they wish to vote in or out at the next elections, we need to know whether our elected representatives are actually representing us or perhaps pursuing their own agendas.
Therefore, further to the proposals by the Countryside Department to use part of Bryn Euryn for grazing, I am requesting under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, to know:
The identity of all councillors as well as any other organisations who have voted on this subject.
Exactly which way each named councillor and (if applicable) non elected representative has voted.
Would you please confirm receipt of this email by return and respond with a full answer as soon as possible.
Regards,
ASBO Yobs causing trouble on the Bryn again
It seems there was a "party" last night on the Bryn, loads of empty beer cans there this morning together the remains of the bonfire they built, right by the bench in the the grass area the Warden wants to have livestock graze!
There are serious problems with ASBO activity on the Bryn, if the council madness ever happens the livestock will be at real risk from the yobs. The yobs are sure to love the timber fence posts for their bonfires.
There are serious problems with ASBO activity on the Bryn, if the council madness ever happens the livestock will be at real risk from the yobs. The yobs are sure to love the timber fence posts for their bonfires.
Council Press Release on Web Site
From http://www.conwy.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=142&doc=24582&Language=1
23/07/09 - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
remove display from date from under article title - dr 26/1/04 -->
Feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve.
Following concerns raised by members of the public to the idea of Conwy County Borough Council investigating the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve (LNR) to manage the grasslands, a meeting was held on site this week of the Bryn Euryn LNR Management Advisory Group.
The members looked at the grassland areas and informally discussed the various issues around the idea of introducing grazing livestock to help manage the grasslands for which the site is designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest.
After thoughtful discussion, a vote followed, whereby it was agreed by 4 to 3, that Conwy County Borough Council Countryside Officers should continue to gather information towards assessing the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to the Bryn, and that this feasibility study should be presented to a formal meeting of the group in October/November 2009. It was also agreed that a relevant representative of the 'Bryn Euryn Users Association' should be invited to attend this meeting.
The Committee is anxious to underline the fact that no decisions have yet been made, and that full consultation will take place with the public if a decision to continue is taken after the feasibility study has been completed.
23/07/09 - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
remove display from date from under article title - dr 26/1/04 -->
Feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve.
Following concerns raised by members of the public to the idea of Conwy County Borough Council investigating the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve (LNR) to manage the grasslands, a meeting was held on site this week of the Bryn Euryn LNR Management Advisory Group.
The members looked at the grassland areas and informally discussed the various issues around the idea of introducing grazing livestock to help manage the grasslands for which the site is designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest.
After thoughtful discussion, a vote followed, whereby it was agreed by 4 to 3, that Conwy County Borough Council Countryside Officers should continue to gather information towards assessing the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to the Bryn, and that this feasibility study should be presented to a formal meeting of the group in October/November 2009. It was also agreed that a relevant representative of the 'Bryn Euryn Users Association' should be invited to attend this meeting.
The Committee is anxious to underline the fact that no decisions have yet been made, and that full consultation will take place with the public if a decision to continue is taken after the feasibility study has been completed.
Wednesday 22 July 2009
Proposed Fence Line
As detailed in a recent post http://save-our-bryn.blogspot.com/2009/07/plans-are-already-drawn-up.html a Freedom of Information request to the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW)produced a copy of a plan, dated 30th April 2009, showing fence line and gates. As CCW have told us the information is covered by copyright law we aren't allowed to post their plan on the Internet however, using a GoogleMap a supporter has overlaid the approximate fence line and proposed gate location.
The combined imagine is a very close representation of CCW map reference 31WHMoo1RA but not a copy, hopefully the huge public interest means this approach will be acceptable to all however if anyone isn't happy please drop us a line and we will remove.
Myself I was surprised just how much of the open meadow is to go, I thought perhaps a few small areas, little did I imagine they wanted it all!
Extracts from the CCW documents will be published once supporters have been through it all, again hopefully the public interest means this will be allowable.
Our aim is just to publish the facts as we get them to let the public make up their own mind.
Thanks to the local 'blog master' for his kind offer of assistance.
Another Dog Walker Killed By Cattle
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8163599.stm
Another sad example of why dogs and grazing won't work, lets hope the council H&S man is consulted as part of the 'feasibility study'?
Woman rescuing dog killed by cows
The tragedy was in a field in St Fagans, on the outskirts of Cardiff
A woman was trampled to death by cows when she tried to rescue her dog which ran into the herd, an inquest was told.
Anita Hinchey, 63, was walking her dog with a friend through a field owned by the Earl of Plymouth estate in Cardiff when her pet ran off.
Mrs Hinchey, of St Georges-super-Ely, Vale of Glamorgan, walked into the cows to find her pet but was trapped and trampled on, the Cardiff inquest heard.
She died of multiple injuries. The inquest was adjourned to a later date.
Mrs Hinchey and a friend had both been walking their dogs in the field in St Fagans, which neighbours the National History Museum, on Saturday.
Her friend became very nervous and put her dog on the lead.... Mrs Hinchley did not and, as she attempted to retrieve her dog, she was trapped amongst the cows
Det Con Rya Cowan
The field, which runs alongside the southbound carriageway of the A4232, does not have a designated footpath, the coroner was told.
Det Con Rya Cowan told the inquest: "Her friend became very nervous and put her dog on the lead.
"Mrs Hinchey did not and, as she attempted to retrieve her dog, she was trapped amongst the cows."
The inquest heard that Ms Hinchey was among the herd when she slipped and was trampled.
The emergency services were alerted to the incident at 1619 BST.
Det Con Cowan said paramedic Robert John was first at the scene and he pronounced Ms Hinchey dead.
Her body was later formally identified by her daughter, Kim Beard.
South Wales Police are investigating the incident but earlier this week said there were no suspicious circumstances.
Rare attacks
"This appears to be a tragic accident," said Ch Insp Alun Morgan.
"Our thoughts are with the lady's family, who have been informed."
The Health and Safety Executive has interviewed the farmer who owns the cattle.
In June, 49-year-old vet Liz Crowsley was trampled to death by a herd of cattle while walking the Pennine Way with her two dogs.
Two weeks earlier, former home secretary David Blunkett was left with a black eye and a cracked rib after being charged by a cow while on a walking holiday with his guide dog in the Peak District.
In both cases, the cows are thought to have been trying to drive off the dogs in order to protect calves.
Health and Safety Executive figures show that such attacks are rare. Excluding the recent deaths, 18 people have been killed and 481 injured by cows in the past eight years.
Another sad example of why dogs and grazing won't work, lets hope the council H&S man is consulted as part of the 'feasibility study'?
Woman rescuing dog killed by cows
The tragedy was in a field in St Fagans, on the outskirts of Cardiff
A woman was trampled to death by cows when she tried to rescue her dog which ran into the herd, an inquest was told.
Anita Hinchey, 63, was walking her dog with a friend through a field owned by the Earl of Plymouth estate in Cardiff when her pet ran off.
Mrs Hinchey, of St Georges-super-Ely, Vale of Glamorgan, walked into the cows to find her pet but was trapped and trampled on, the Cardiff inquest heard.
She died of multiple injuries. The inquest was adjourned to a later date.
Mrs Hinchey and a friend had both been walking their dogs in the field in St Fagans, which neighbours the National History Museum, on Saturday.
Her friend became very nervous and put her dog on the lead.... Mrs Hinchley did not and, as she attempted to retrieve her dog, she was trapped amongst the cows
Det Con Rya Cowan
The field, which runs alongside the southbound carriageway of the A4232, does not have a designated footpath, the coroner was told.
Det Con Rya Cowan told the inquest: "Her friend became very nervous and put her dog on the lead.
"Mrs Hinchey did not and, as she attempted to retrieve her dog, she was trapped amongst the cows."
The inquest heard that Ms Hinchey was among the herd when she slipped and was trampled.
The emergency services were alerted to the incident at 1619 BST.
Det Con Cowan said paramedic Robert John was first at the scene and he pronounced Ms Hinchey dead.
Her body was later formally identified by her daughter, Kim Beard.
South Wales Police are investigating the incident but earlier this week said there were no suspicious circumstances.
Rare attacks
"This appears to be a tragic accident," said Ch Insp Alun Morgan.
"Our thoughts are with the lady's family, who have been informed."
The Health and Safety Executive has interviewed the farmer who owns the cattle.
In June, 49-year-old vet Liz Crowsley was trampled to death by a herd of cattle while walking the Pennine Way with her two dogs.
Two weeks earlier, former home secretary David Blunkett was left with a black eye and a cracked rib after being charged by a cow while on a walking holiday with his guide dog in the Peak District.
In both cases, the cows are thought to have been trying to drive off the dogs in order to protect calves.
Health and Safety Executive figures show that such attacks are rare. Excluding the recent deaths, 18 people have been killed and 481 injured by cows in the past eight years.
Council Notice following MAG 'Informal' meeting
As you will read, the decision to continue with a feasibility study was only passed by one vote. We would like to know who was present and who voted to continue spending rate payers money on a proposal none of us want. At least they acknowledge our Association and our right to have a say on our local 'public open space'. If like us you would like a few questions answers, please use the forms below and use the Freedom of Information Act. The more people who ask questions the better to make public bodies more accountable to the people who pay the wages and provide the funding through rates and taxes.
Information Notice regarding the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
Following the concern raised by members of the public to the idea of Conwy County Borough Council investigating the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve (LNR) to manage the grasslands, a meeting was held on site this week of the Bryn Euryn LNR Management Advisory Group.
The members looked at the grassland areas and informally discussed the various issues around the idea of introducing grazing livestock to help manage the grasslands for which the site is designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest.
After thoughtful discussion, a vote followed, whereby it was agreed by 4 to 3, that Conwy County Borough Council Countryside Officers should continue to gather information towards assessing the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to the Bryn, and that this feasibility study should be presented to a formal meeting of the group in October/November 2009. It was also agreed that a relevant representative of the ‘Bryn Euryn Users Association’ should be invited to attend this meeting.
The Committee is anxious to underline the fact that no decisions have yet been made, and that full consultation will take place with the public if a decision to continue is taken after the feasibility study has been completed.
Conwy Countryside Service on behalf of Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve Management Advisory Group
22nd July 2009
Information Notice regarding the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
Following the concern raised by members of the public to the idea of Conwy County Borough Council investigating the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve (LNR) to manage the grasslands, a meeting was held on site this week of the Bryn Euryn LNR Management Advisory Group.
The members looked at the grassland areas and informally discussed the various issues around the idea of introducing grazing livestock to help manage the grasslands for which the site is designated a Site of Special Scientific Interest.
After thoughtful discussion, a vote followed, whereby it was agreed by 4 to 3, that Conwy County Borough Council Countryside Officers should continue to gather information towards assessing the feasibility of introducing grazing livestock to the Bryn, and that this feasibility study should be presented to a formal meeting of the group in October/November 2009. It was also agreed that a relevant representative of the ‘Bryn Euryn Users Association’ should be invited to attend this meeting.
The Committee is anxious to underline the fact that no decisions have yet been made, and that full consultation will take place with the public if a decision to continue is taken after the feasibility study has been completed.
Conwy Countryside Service on behalf of Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve Management Advisory Group
22nd July 2009
Tuesday 21 July 2009
If you really want to know what was said at the 'informal meeting'...
...it would seem our friend the freedom of information request will be required to winkle out what was said.
I bet they've been sending lots of 'informal emails' to each other confirming what was said and actions to be done?
If anyone would like to help could you send off the following request and let us know what they give you? Thanks
Information Regulations Unit
Conwy County Borough Council
2nd Floor, Victoria Centre
Mostyn Street
Llandudno
LL30 2RP
Tel: 01492 574016 / 574024
Fax: 01492 574007
E-mail: info-regs.unit@conwy.gov.uk
Dear Sir/Madam,
Freedom Of Information Request - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
Further to the Bryn Euryn Management Advisory Group (MAG) for the above held on Monday 20th July, 2009, this is a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
Please send me the following information: -
Correspondence relating to the above meeting both before and after the meeting, to include letters, memos, faxes, emails and file notes.
I would like the above information to be provided to me in electronic format if available otherwise paper
I understand that under the act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this email. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing/email that you have received this request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
I bet they've been sending lots of 'informal emails' to each other confirming what was said and actions to be done?
If anyone would like to help could you send off the following request and let us know what they give you? Thanks
Information Regulations Unit
Conwy County Borough Council
2nd Floor, Victoria Centre
Mostyn Street
Llandudno
LL30 2RP
Tel: 01492 574016 / 574024
Fax: 01492 574007
E-mail: info-regs.unit@conwy.gov.uk
Dear Sir/Madam,
Freedom Of Information Request - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
Further to the Bryn Euryn Management Advisory Group (MAG) for the above held on Monday 20th July, 2009, this is a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
Please send me the following information: -
Correspondence relating to the above meeting both before and after the meeting, to include letters, memos, faxes, emails and file notes.
I would like the above information to be provided to me in electronic format if available otherwise paper
I understand that under the act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this email. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing/email that you have received this request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
Do You Want Minutes of the Latest Council Meeting...
.... no chance, despite them taking the huge decision to ignore the wishes of the public they have decided to go ahead with a feasibility study during an 'informal' meeting.
According to the council an informal meeting doesn't have minutes! Given the huge local concern this is outrageous, just take a look at the email from the council below: -
Subject: RE: Bryn Euryn
Dear Mr ******
Thank you for your email. The Management Advisory Group (MAG) for Bryn Euryn LNR has formal and informal meetings during the course of the year, the main difference being that at formal meetings minutes aretaken and that at informal meetings minutes are not taken. The on site meeting yesterday was an informal meeting, so there are no minutes, however to keep people informed, which is obviously important, an information update will be sent out shortly to the councils press officer and a copy of it will be posted on site at Bryn Euryn. This information update has been drafted and I am currently awaiting any amendments to this from all the MAG members before I can send this out.I have asked for any amendments to be sent back to me by the end of the day, so I am happy to send you the information notice via email once I have received confirmation from all members on its contents. If you require copies of minutes of previous formal meetings which are usually held once a year I am more than happy to send these to you. I will endeavour to send you a copy of the information update either at the end of the day or first thing in the morning, basically as soon as Iam in a position to be able to do so.
Many thanks Helen
According to the council an informal meeting doesn't have minutes! Given the huge local concern this is outrageous, just take a look at the email from the council below: -
Subject: RE: Bryn Euryn
Dear Mr ******
Thank you for your email. The Management Advisory Group (MAG) for Bryn Euryn LNR has formal and informal meetings during the course of the year, the main difference being that at formal meetings minutes aretaken and that at informal meetings minutes are not taken. The on site meeting yesterday was an informal meeting, so there are no minutes, however to keep people informed, which is obviously important, an information update will be sent out shortly to the councils press officer and a copy of it will be posted on site at Bryn Euryn. This information update has been drafted and I am currently awaiting any amendments to this from all the MAG members before I can send this out.I have asked for any amendments to be sent back to me by the end of the day, so I am happy to send you the information notice via email once I have received confirmation from all members on its contents. If you require copies of minutes of previous formal meetings which are usually held once a year I am more than happy to send these to you. I will endeavour to send you a copy of the information update either at the end of the day or first thing in the morning, basically as soon as Iam in a position to be able to do so.
Many thanks Helen
Monday 20 July 2009
The Plans Are Already Drawn Up!
We've been told not to worry about the councils plan, its early days, nothing will happen without public consultation etc, etc.
Imagine our surprize to find, following a freedom of information request, that the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW) have already drawn up plans showing areas to be fenced, location of gates and details for livestock grazing!
The plans are dated 30th April 2009, we've love to post them on this site but the CCW have told us the information is covered by copyright law so we aren't allowed to post on the Internet!
So, if you would like to see the plans you'll have to write to them using our friend the freedom of information request, typical letter below, just add your address.
Countryside Council for Wales
Freedom of Information Unit
Maes y Ffynnon
Penrhosgarnedd
Bangor
Gwynedd
LL57 2DW
Sent Via Email to bangor@ccw.gov.uk
Dear Sir/Madam,
Freedom Of Information Request - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve, Rhos on Sea, Colwyn Bay
SSSI_CODE: 71
Further to the recent front page article in the Colwyn Bay issue of the North Wales Pioneer (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/Rhos-on-Sea-Dog-Walkers.5372763.jp ), this is a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
Conwy County Borough Council advise that the Countryside Council for Wales have requested they look into the introduction of grazing to public open space on Bryn Euryn in an attempt encourage calcareous grasslands.
Please send me the following information: -
Copies of maps 31WHMoo1RA showing proposed route of fencing and location of gates
I understand that under the act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this email. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing/email that you have received this request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
Imagine our surprize to find, following a freedom of information request, that the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW) have already drawn up plans showing areas to be fenced, location of gates and details for livestock grazing!
The plans are dated 30th April 2009, we've love to post them on this site but the CCW have told us the information is covered by copyright law so we aren't allowed to post on the Internet!
So, if you would like to see the plans you'll have to write to them using our friend the freedom of information request, typical letter below, just add your address.
Countryside Council for Wales
Freedom of Information Unit
Maes y Ffynnon
Penrhosgarnedd
Bangor
Gwynedd
LL57 2DW
Sent Via Email to bangor@ccw.gov.uk
Dear Sir/Madam,
Freedom Of Information Request - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve, Rhos on Sea, Colwyn Bay
SSSI_CODE: 71
Further to the recent front page article in the Colwyn Bay issue of the North Wales Pioneer (http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/Rhos-on-Sea-Dog-Walkers.5372763.jp ), this is a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
Conwy County Borough Council advise that the Countryside Council for Wales have requested they look into the introduction of grazing to public open space on Bryn Euryn in an attempt encourage calcareous grasslands.
Please send me the following information: -
Copies of maps 31WHMoo1RA showing proposed route of fencing and location of gates
I understand that under the act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this email. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing/email that you have received this request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
Freedom of Information Requests
We are very lucky living where we do in a democratic county, Conwy Council have a great department for dealing with Freedom of Information requests. We have sent off a few requests already and supporters tell us after todays decision they are already planning more.
Details of the department are below, should you have any question you want to ask of the council in relation to this matter just send them a letter or email.
If you want to contact them you might want to use the format below: -
Information Regulations Unit
Conwy County Borough Council
2nd Floor, Victoria Centre
Mostyn Street
Llandudno
LL30 2RP
Tel: 01492 574016 / 574024
Fax: 01492 574007
E-mail: info-regs.unit@conwy.gov.uk
Dear Sir/Madam,
Freedom Of Information Request - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
Further to the Councils plans for grazing on Bryn Euryn this is a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
Please send me the following information: -
List what you want here, best to ask for one or two little items at a time
I would like the above information to be provided to me in electronic format if available otherwise paper
I understand that under the act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this email. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing/email that you have received this request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
Details of the department are below, should you have any question you want to ask of the council in relation to this matter just send them a letter or email.
If you want to contact them you might want to use the format below: -
Information Regulations Unit
Conwy County Borough Council
2nd Floor, Victoria Centre
Mostyn Street
Llandudno
LL30 2RP
Tel: 01492 574016 / 574024
Fax: 01492 574007
E-mail: info-regs.unit@conwy.gov.uk
Dear Sir/Madam,
Freedom Of Information Request - Bryn Euryn Local Nature Reserve
Further to the Councils plans for grazing on Bryn Euryn this is a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000
Please send me the following information: -
List what you want here, best to ask for one or two little items at a time
I would like the above information to be provided to me in electronic format if available otherwise paper
I understand that under the act, I should be entitled to a response within 20 working days of your receipt of this email. I would be grateful if you could confirm in writing/email that you have received this request.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely,
No Surrender to Council Madness
Sadly, as many of us feared, the council have chosen to take no notice of the wishes of the public. Despite 200 people signing up against proposal for introducing grazing to the Bryn, and not a single one in favour, the Management Advisory Group has today decided to waste rate payer’s money by carrying out a feasibility study.
We have asked how much it will cost to which the council responded ‘we are undertaking the initial feasibility exercise ourselves’. There will still be a cost to this and no doubt consultants will soon follow and thousands of pounds will be wasted!
We asked is they need planning permission for this change of use, the council responded ‘I am checking on the need for planning permission’, a shame this wasn’t done first!
We asked where their proof of the history of grazing, the council responded ‘The only feedback I’ve had on the grazing is someone who remembers sheep grazing there from 1930s to 1950s’, we’ve got people prepare to say there was no history of grazing in living memory!
The most disappointing thing is the management committee is made up of too many people without local interest. In fairness I am sure most of our local councillors will have considered the wishes of the local rate payers who elect them but as you can see from the list below what interest have the rest of these faceless individuals from Cardiff, Mold and Welshpool got in our Bryn?
Apparently the decision to go ahead with the feasibility study was a majority vote; well a Freedom of Information request will be going off to see which way they voted.
It seems clear the Management Advisory Group feel they are above the wishes of the local people, their wings need to be clipped and they need to be accountable to the Council scrutiny process and the rate payers.
If we want to save the Bryn we need to fight, the Bryn Euryn User Association will soon be meeting to co-ordinate action. Letters will need to be written, placards will be made, rallies will be held and if needed there will be picket lines but common sense and the wishes of the public will ultimately prevail!
Cllr. D M Roberts, Rhos on Sea
Cllr M Thomas, Rhos on Sea
Cllr R E Parry, Rhos on Sea
Cllr Paul Richards (Town Council) Colwyn Bay
Cllr Philip R Edwards, Rhos on Sea
Mr Ken Clarke Contact Conwy Countryside Service.
Dr. J.Osley / Mr Paul Mitchell, CCW, Mold
Dr M Yates, Cardiff
Mr Chris Martin Clwyd and Powys Archaeological Trust, Welshpool
We have asked how much it will cost to which the council responded ‘we are undertaking the initial feasibility exercise ourselves’. There will still be a cost to this and no doubt consultants will soon follow and thousands of pounds will be wasted!
We asked is they need planning permission for this change of use, the council responded ‘I am checking on the need for planning permission’, a shame this wasn’t done first!
We asked where their proof of the history of grazing, the council responded ‘The only feedback I’ve had on the grazing is someone who remembers sheep grazing there from 1930s to 1950s’, we’ve got people prepare to say there was no history of grazing in living memory!
The most disappointing thing is the management committee is made up of too many people without local interest. In fairness I am sure most of our local councillors will have considered the wishes of the local rate payers who elect them but as you can see from the list below what interest have the rest of these faceless individuals from Cardiff, Mold and Welshpool got in our Bryn?
Apparently the decision to go ahead with the feasibility study was a majority vote; well a Freedom of Information request will be going off to see which way they voted.
It seems clear the Management Advisory Group feel they are above the wishes of the local people, their wings need to be clipped and they need to be accountable to the Council scrutiny process and the rate payers.
If we want to save the Bryn we need to fight, the Bryn Euryn User Association will soon be meeting to co-ordinate action. Letters will need to be written, placards will be made, rallies will be held and if needed there will be picket lines but common sense and the wishes of the public will ultimately prevail!
Cllr. D M Roberts, Rhos on Sea
Cllr M Thomas, Rhos on Sea
Cllr R E Parry, Rhos on Sea
Cllr Paul Richards (Town Council) Colwyn Bay
Cllr Philip R Edwards, Rhos on Sea
Mr Ken Clarke Contact Conwy Countryside Service.
Dr. J.Osley / Mr Paul Mitchell, CCW, Mold
Dr M Yates, Cardiff
Mr Chris Martin Clwyd and Powys Archaeological Trust, Welshpool
Reply from the Warden
Further to this 'blog'
http://save-our-bryn.blogspot.com/2009/06/response-to-wardens-reply.html
the email below has been received by a Save Our Bryn supporter in reply. Our comments/questions are in grey, the Wardens reply is in red
History of Grazing
It seems clear there is no evidence of historic grazing in living memory. Older residents and supporters of those wishing to keep the Bryn as an unrestricted, open public space confirm, no grazing in at least the last 60 years. The current use of the Bryn, as a public open space, rather than grazing land, is surely now firmly established and this is no doubt its legal use, in Planning terms? If the proposing grazing does proceed the public open space will be lost as the two uses are not compatible. I imagine introduction of grazing would require planning permission, as was the case with the change of use of the bottom field into allotments?
The only feedback I’ve had on the grazing is someone who remembers sheep grazing there from 1930s to 1950s. The Bryn has been public open space since 1932, when it was sold to the Council. I don’t see why grazing and public open space should be incompatible-it happens on other reserves and in the countryside generally. I am checking on the need for planning permission.
Site of Special Scientific Interest
As you will be aware, calcareous grasses are typically associated with limestone pavements and outcrops. The process by which calcareous grasslands becomes overgrown by scrub is part of the normal environmental cycle known as ‘natural succession’. You state ‘the Bryn is a Site of Special Scientific Interest for its calcareous grasslands, which had been maintained by grazing in the past. This interest was being lost by scrubbing over, so since 1996, in partnership with the Countryside Council for Wales, it has been maintained artificially by mowing and raking and cutting back scrub’. As there is no evidence of grazing 50 years prior to the artificial mowing by the council/CCW I would be grateful if you could advise on the relative areas over the years. Has the mowing been artificially maintaining the area of calcareous grass identified in 1996 or has it been increasing the area to perhaps reclaim some of the area lost in the 50 year absence in grazing prior to 1996?
I suspect it is the latter and now this artificial financial burden has been created, cost savings are being considered, the sole reason behind proposals to introduce grazing. Whilst the majority of users of the Bryn support bio-diversity and the like, maintaining an artificially enlarged area of calcareous grass in these difficult times should not be at the loss of the amenity provided by this public open space.
I trust your feasibility study will consider options of reducing the area of grass maintained as well as the frequency of maintaining? Does it really need to be annual?
Mowing has done both-maintained the grassland that was present in 1996 and removed scrub that has encroached over the previous decades. If natural succession was allowed the site would turn into scrub/woodland with loss of open space. As the site is deignated as a Site of Special Scientific Interest for its limestone grasslands then we have a duty to maintain its interest. Since 1996 we have recovered some of this interest and work is ongoing to maintain and enhance this interest.
We have reduced the mowing on the upper meadow since 1996 but we are looking next year to mow the lower meadow twice each summer to try and reduce the perennial rye grass.
The cost of the works is shared between ourselves and the Countryside Council for Wales, under a Section 15 management agreement, which has just been renewed for another five years.
Management Advisory Group (MAG)
Does the MAG have the authority to totally ignore the wishes of the public following any consultation exercise or would a recommendation by forward for the full council to decide?
Would now perhaps be a good time to formalise terms of reference for the MAG and consider allowing members of the public to be directly represented as local end users of the Bryn? For ease of public access could minutes of meetings (past and present), agendas, meeting dates etc be published on the council’s web site as is the case with many other committees? Allowing members of the public to observe committee meetings would also seem to be in the public interest.
The Management Advisory Group has the authority to take management decisions, other than where such decisions would conflict with agreed corporate policy or practice. It could, theoretically, ignore the wishes of the public – but in practice the Councillors are there as representatives of the local community and, in any event, wider public opinion would be a significant factor in any decision taken.
The terms of reference for the MAG are simple – being confined to overseeing the management of the Local Nature Reserve. We see no value in detailing them any further as we consider them fit for purpose.
Minutes could be put on the website but are more easily available by e-mailing Helen Jowett -Helen.Jowett@conwy.gov.uk.
The MAG meetings are not public meetings and therefore not open to the public. Local residents can make representations to their local councillors.
Feasibility Study
Clearly it is early days for your proposals and a detailed feasibility study and comprehensive public consultation will be required before the MAG can make any meaningful decision. Could you advise how much the council expect to pay to prepare the feasibility study. I presume drawings will be provided, planning consultation, legal opinion and specialist consultants will all be required so it won’t be cheap.
We are undertaking the initial feasibility exercise ourselves. More formal public consultation is likely to be undertaken should the MAG wish to progress further with the concept.
How will the lucky precipitant of the free grazing land be determined given the need for the council to be accountable to the public? Is not charging for grazing really sufficient to get around the ‘no business use’ covenant? Before committing too much effort to the feasibility study you might first want to clarify this point?
Any grazing licence would be addressed by our Property Services department. Our Legal Department has already provided advice on conformity with the terms of the covenant.
Health & Safety
I can find no details on the planning application to create allotments, 0/35363 regarding any traffic issues and note the land is managed by another council department but I trust all council departments involved will work together in considering traffic issues to what is a very narrow entrance.
Given the recent tragic storey of a dog walker killed by cattle within the last week, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8112048.stm, how can the council say anyone using the Bryn whether they be dog walkers, children or the elderly be safe if grazing goes ahead? I trust your feasibility study will include and assessment from the Council’s H&S department with specific reference to the above case and what measures will be put in place to avoid a similar incident, should grazing ever proceed.
We would need to assess H&S issues in discussion with any potential graziers and decide what measures were needed.
There is also the safety issue in respect to any grazing animals considering the numerous instances of anti social behaviour, both in respect to the animals well being and also in relation to any injury incurred by any person under the influence of alcohol or substance abuse.
In closing, I believe that there is sufficient public outrage, concern, risk and information to hand already for the MAG to discount any grazing on the Bryn. To proceed further will result in wasted time and expense.
The MAG will, no doubt, take into account all the views put forward when deciding whether or not to proceed. I must emphasise that at present there is no firm proposal for grazing – the MAG has only agreed to considering the feasibility of the concept.
http://save-our-bryn.blogspot.com/2009/06/response-to-wardens-reply.html
the email below has been received by a Save Our Bryn supporter in reply. Our comments/questions are in grey, the Wardens reply is in red
History of Grazing
It seems clear there is no evidence of historic grazing in living memory. Older residents and supporters of those wishing to keep the Bryn as an unrestricted, open public space confirm, no grazing in at least the last 60 years. The current use of the Bryn, as a public open space, rather than grazing land, is surely now firmly established and this is no doubt its legal use, in Planning terms? If the proposing grazing does proceed the public open space will be lost as the two uses are not compatible. I imagine introduction of grazing would require planning permission, as was the case with the change of use of the bottom field into allotments?
The only feedback I’ve had on the grazing is someone who remembers sheep grazing there from 1930s to 1950s. The Bryn has been public open space since 1932, when it was sold to the Council. I don’t see why grazing and public open space should be incompatible-it happens on other reserves and in the countryside generally. I am checking on the need for planning permission.
Site of Special Scientific Interest
As you will be aware, calcareous grasses are typically associated with limestone pavements and outcrops. The process by which calcareous grasslands becomes overgrown by scrub is part of the normal environmental cycle known as ‘natural succession’. You state ‘the Bryn is a Site of Special Scientific Interest for its calcareous grasslands, which had been maintained by grazing in the past. This interest was being lost by scrubbing over, so since 1996, in partnership with the Countryside Council for Wales, it has been maintained artificially by mowing and raking and cutting back scrub’. As there is no evidence of grazing 50 years prior to the artificial mowing by the council/CCW I would be grateful if you could advise on the relative areas over the years. Has the mowing been artificially maintaining the area of calcareous grass identified in 1996 or has it been increasing the area to perhaps reclaim some of the area lost in the 50 year absence in grazing prior to 1996?
I suspect it is the latter and now this artificial financial burden has been created, cost savings are being considered, the sole reason behind proposals to introduce grazing. Whilst the majority of users of the Bryn support bio-diversity and the like, maintaining an artificially enlarged area of calcareous grass in these difficult times should not be at the loss of the amenity provided by this public open space.
I trust your feasibility study will consider options of reducing the area of grass maintained as well as the frequency of maintaining? Does it really need to be annual?
Mowing has done both-maintained the grassland that was present in 1996 and removed scrub that has encroached over the previous decades. If natural succession was allowed the site would turn into scrub/woodland with loss of open space. As the site is deignated as a Site of Special Scientific Interest for its limestone grasslands then we have a duty to maintain its interest. Since 1996 we have recovered some of this interest and work is ongoing to maintain and enhance this interest.
We have reduced the mowing on the upper meadow since 1996 but we are looking next year to mow the lower meadow twice each summer to try and reduce the perennial rye grass.
The cost of the works is shared between ourselves and the Countryside Council for Wales, under a Section 15 management agreement, which has just been renewed for another five years.
Management Advisory Group (MAG)
Does the MAG have the authority to totally ignore the wishes of the public following any consultation exercise or would a recommendation by forward for the full council to decide?
Would now perhaps be a good time to formalise terms of reference for the MAG and consider allowing members of the public to be directly represented as local end users of the Bryn? For ease of public access could minutes of meetings (past and present), agendas, meeting dates etc be published on the council’s web site as is the case with many other committees? Allowing members of the public to observe committee meetings would also seem to be in the public interest.
The Management Advisory Group has the authority to take management decisions, other than where such decisions would conflict with agreed corporate policy or practice. It could, theoretically, ignore the wishes of the public – but in practice the Councillors are there as representatives of the local community and, in any event, wider public opinion would be a significant factor in any decision taken.
The terms of reference for the MAG are simple – being confined to overseeing the management of the Local Nature Reserve. We see no value in detailing them any further as we consider them fit for purpose.
Minutes could be put on the website but are more easily available by e-mailing Helen Jowett -Helen.Jowett@conwy.gov.uk.
The MAG meetings are not public meetings and therefore not open to the public. Local residents can make representations to their local councillors.
Feasibility Study
Clearly it is early days for your proposals and a detailed feasibility study and comprehensive public consultation will be required before the MAG can make any meaningful decision. Could you advise how much the council expect to pay to prepare the feasibility study. I presume drawings will be provided, planning consultation, legal opinion and specialist consultants will all be required so it won’t be cheap.
We are undertaking the initial feasibility exercise ourselves. More formal public consultation is likely to be undertaken should the MAG wish to progress further with the concept.
How will the lucky precipitant of the free grazing land be determined given the need for the council to be accountable to the public? Is not charging for grazing really sufficient to get around the ‘no business use’ covenant? Before committing too much effort to the feasibility study you might first want to clarify this point?
Any grazing licence would be addressed by our Property Services department. Our Legal Department has already provided advice on conformity with the terms of the covenant.
Health & Safety
I can find no details on the planning application to create allotments, 0/35363 regarding any traffic issues and note the land is managed by another council department but I trust all council departments involved will work together in considering traffic issues to what is a very narrow entrance.
Given the recent tragic storey of a dog walker killed by cattle within the last week, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/8112048.stm, how can the council say anyone using the Bryn whether they be dog walkers, children or the elderly be safe if grazing goes ahead? I trust your feasibility study will include and assessment from the Council’s H&S department with specific reference to the above case and what measures will be put in place to avoid a similar incident, should grazing ever proceed.
We would need to assess H&S issues in discussion with any potential graziers and decide what measures were needed.
There is also the safety issue in respect to any grazing animals considering the numerous instances of anti social behaviour, both in respect to the animals well being and also in relation to any injury incurred by any person under the influence of alcohol or substance abuse.
In closing, I believe that there is sufficient public outrage, concern, risk and information to hand already for the MAG to discount any grazing on the Bryn. To proceed further will result in wasted time and expense.
The MAG will, no doubt, take into account all the views put forward when deciding whether or not to proceed. I must emphasise that at present there is no firm proposal for grazing – the MAG has only agreed to considering the feasibility of the concept.
MP DISAPPOINTED AT BRYN EURYN DECISION
News Release from David Jones, MP
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Westminster 20 July, 2009
Clwyd West MP, David Jones, has expressed his disappointment that the Bryn Euryn nature reserve management committee has today, by a majority, resolved to proceed with a study into the feasibility of turning part of the reserve over to grazing.
David Jones said:
“I am deeply disappointed that the committee has decided to proceed with this course despite enormous opposition from users of the reserve.
“The cost of fencing and piping water will undoubtedly be high, and possibly prohibitive, given the current economic climate and the need for the council to save money.
“I will continue to press the management committee to consider the weight of public opinion over this issue and very much hope that they will change their minds.”
ENDS
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Westminster 20 July, 2009
Clwyd West MP, David Jones, has expressed his disappointment that the Bryn Euryn nature reserve management committee has today, by a majority, resolved to proceed with a study into the feasibility of turning part of the reserve over to grazing.
David Jones said:
“I am deeply disappointed that the committee has decided to proceed with this course despite enormous opposition from users of the reserve.
“The cost of fencing and piping water will undoubtedly be high, and possibly prohibitive, given the current economic climate and the need for the council to save money.
“I will continue to press the management committee to consider the weight of public opinion over this issue and very much hope that they will change their minds.”
ENDS
Sunday 19 July 2009
Management Committee Meeting Tomorrow - Monday 20th July
The special meeting of the Bryn Euryn Management Committee is to be held tomorrow, 20th July to discuss the grazing issue.
No public access to this one but there was talk of holding a public meeting for all interested parties at a later date.
Lets hope they take note of public feeling and forget about their silly grazing idea.
No public access to this one but there was talk of holding a public meeting for all interested parties at a later date.
Lets hope they take note of public feeling and forget about their silly grazing idea.
Thursday 16 July 2009
More Comments on Council Letter
Another email from a supporter,
Dear Mr.Jones,Thank you for your letter ref. LDN 2222 dated 14/7/09 re. Bryn Euryn.
I apologise for replying by email, but as the Management Committee meet next Monday 20th, I wanted you to have all the information at your disposal.We are going to summarise all our information to the local councillors before the meeting, so they have everything to hand.I will try to deal with the points in Stuart Davies' letter first.
1. The warden seems to have started the myth that the Bryn was grazed in the 30's to 50's. This is not so, when he was challenged by my neighbour his reply was 'somebody told him!' There is no evidence of previous grazing. We have a number of residents that have been walking the Bryn since 1937, and it has never been grazed in that time. The limestone grass survived very well from then until 1996 without human intervention. In fact the same walkers tell us that before 1996 the Bryn had many more wild flowers and orchids in the meadows.
2. It is not ONLY dog-walkers who are protesting, many walkers and families are unhappy. We have lost one large field to allotments already. The warden has stated that the areas to be enclosed with 'fencing and kissing gates' would be the meadows past the cottage and the upper meadow near the summit. These are the most popular areas to walk through and sit and admire the views, and is quite a large area altogether.We take the 4 months grazing statement with a pinch of salt, once the animals are in who knows?
3. Danger:- I do not think the Council realises the sheer volume of walkers, families and dog-walkers that visit the Bryn. We estimate the 200 or so at our meeting could well have been doubled if it had not been for other commitments on a wet Saturday morning. I do not think it could be compared to other sites in this way. The oft-quoted case of the vet killed by livestock is just the sort of thing that could happen. In an ideal world all dogs and children would be well-behaved and under control, we are dealing with real life here.I am not an expert on horses, but apart from the poor access to the Bryn for transportation, where will these animals be exercised, riding over the rare grass in the meadow, the temptation for owners to ride them around the lanes of the Bryn would be great, with potentially disastrous consequences should they meet an unexpected dog or walker. There are also animal welfare issues due to the fact that a lot of drinking goes on at the Bryn at night, drunken youths and horses don't mix.
4. Costs:- The Council are I am told not allowed to charge for grazing, due to a covenant on the land preventing business use. The cost of fencing and gates would be considerable, and maintenance should not be underestimated, due to vandalism, which I will come to later.Animals need water, the cost of running piping to the top meadow, and the consumption of water(I believe horses can use up to 20 litres per day), will be considerable, and an ongoing cost, also liable to the previously mentioned vandalism.Insurance, somebody has to pay for this. I suppose all this will be billed to our Council Tax. The £4000 the warden said they were trying to save will pale into insignificance, plus the fact that most of the areas they previously strimmed will not be grazed, so will strimming still continue?
There is an ongoing anti-social problem at the Bryn at night mainly. A considerable amount of drinking goes on, also at Llys Euryn. Three times in the last 3 years I have been to the Bryn with the local police to have agressive youths lighting fires and drinking in the meadows removed, my neighbours recently went up and removed two sacks of cans, bottles and rubbish after one such session. My fellow dog walkers always pick up cans etc. on their travels, though to read the comments in the Weekly News one would think all we did was deposit dog mess!There is a sign on the Bryn noticeboard asking dog-walkers to report incidents, which we always do. But we are hampered by the fact that the Countryside Dept. do not cover weekends with Warden cover, which for a leisure type area is surprising. The police do what they can, but are always at full stretch at weekends in other areas.I will send you a copy of an email my wife sent to the Councillors in May which illustrates her concerns over the animals and anti-social behaviour.I believe walkers and dog-walkers should be thanked for keeping the Bryn safe for families, and not treated as the 'baddies' in the Press.Sorry this is so long regards
Dear Mr.Jones,Thank you for your letter ref. LDN 2222 dated 14/7/09 re. Bryn Euryn.
I apologise for replying by email, but as the Management Committee meet next Monday 20th, I wanted you to have all the information at your disposal.We are going to summarise all our information to the local councillors before the meeting, so they have everything to hand.I will try to deal with the points in Stuart Davies' letter first.
1. The warden seems to have started the myth that the Bryn was grazed in the 30's to 50's. This is not so, when he was challenged by my neighbour his reply was 'somebody told him!' There is no evidence of previous grazing. We have a number of residents that have been walking the Bryn since 1937, and it has never been grazed in that time. The limestone grass survived very well from then until 1996 without human intervention. In fact the same walkers tell us that before 1996 the Bryn had many more wild flowers and orchids in the meadows.
2. It is not ONLY dog-walkers who are protesting, many walkers and families are unhappy. We have lost one large field to allotments already. The warden has stated that the areas to be enclosed with 'fencing and kissing gates' would be the meadows past the cottage and the upper meadow near the summit. These are the most popular areas to walk through and sit and admire the views, and is quite a large area altogether.We take the 4 months grazing statement with a pinch of salt, once the animals are in who knows?
3. Danger:- I do not think the Council realises the sheer volume of walkers, families and dog-walkers that visit the Bryn. We estimate the 200 or so at our meeting could well have been doubled if it had not been for other commitments on a wet Saturday morning. I do not think it could be compared to other sites in this way. The oft-quoted case of the vet killed by livestock is just the sort of thing that could happen. In an ideal world all dogs and children would be well-behaved and under control, we are dealing with real life here.I am not an expert on horses, but apart from the poor access to the Bryn for transportation, where will these animals be exercised, riding over the rare grass in the meadow, the temptation for owners to ride them around the lanes of the Bryn would be great, with potentially disastrous consequences should they meet an unexpected dog or walker. There are also animal welfare issues due to the fact that a lot of drinking goes on at the Bryn at night, drunken youths and horses don't mix.
4. Costs:- The Council are I am told not allowed to charge for grazing, due to a covenant on the land preventing business use. The cost of fencing and gates would be considerable, and maintenance should not be underestimated, due to vandalism, which I will come to later.Animals need water, the cost of running piping to the top meadow, and the consumption of water(I believe horses can use up to 20 litres per day), will be considerable, and an ongoing cost, also liable to the previously mentioned vandalism.Insurance, somebody has to pay for this. I suppose all this will be billed to our Council Tax. The £4000 the warden said they were trying to save will pale into insignificance, plus the fact that most of the areas they previously strimmed will not be grazed, so will strimming still continue?
There is an ongoing anti-social problem at the Bryn at night mainly. A considerable amount of drinking goes on, also at Llys Euryn. Three times in the last 3 years I have been to the Bryn with the local police to have agressive youths lighting fires and drinking in the meadows removed, my neighbours recently went up and removed two sacks of cans, bottles and rubbish after one such session. My fellow dog walkers always pick up cans etc. on their travels, though to read the comments in the Weekly News one would think all we did was deposit dog mess!There is a sign on the Bryn noticeboard asking dog-walkers to report incidents, which we always do. But we are hampered by the fact that the Countryside Dept. do not cover weekends with Warden cover, which for a leisure type area is surprising. The police do what they can, but are always at full stretch at weekends in other areas.I will send you a copy of an email my wife sent to the Councillors in May which illustrates her concerns over the animals and anti-social behaviour.I believe walkers and dog-walkers should be thanked for keeping the Bryn safe for families, and not treated as the 'baddies' in the Press.Sorry this is so long regards
Comments on Council Letter
Copy of email sent by Save Our Bryn supporter to David Jones, MP
Dear Mr Jones
Thank you for your continued support of our battle to keep Bryn Euryn an unrestricted open public space. You previously mentioned you would be interested in viewing the covenants regarding the area when they arrived. We have posted most of the pages on our blog site, the rest to follow shortly. Tony Morgan has shown me the letter you received from Stuart Davies and I would like to add my comments to the ones he has already sent to you.
I feel that the council are rather missing the point in so far as the Bryn is unique in the area because it has no restrictions due to animal grazing. Only Eirias Park provides a similar open space to take our children and dogs, but that required a car or bus ride and is also earmarked for further developments in the near future. The beach has restrictions for part of the year and obviously is governed by the tides.
As for the comment about people may like to see the animals, 'see' maybe but having to walk through them may be a totally different proposition. We are surrounded by grazing livestock on every hillside, field and nature reserve so I feel these people are already well catered for. The recent article criticising the dog walkers for allowing their dogs to foul the area (the minority I might add) makes no mention of what it would be like with livestock, and who would clear that?
My neighbour who has no dog is irate about the whole idea from the point of view of animal and children safety. It would have to be very impressive fencing and gates to keep all dogs out while walking in the woods. So will we then be required to keep all dogs on leads over the whole area? Also who's going to protect livestock from drunken youths late at night? Would this be shifting the bill for strimming from the council to the police, and any farmer can tell them that fences need maintaining and livestock need water and regular checks.
I met a young woman today who has been exploring the Bryn ready to bring her children during the holidays. She was looking forward to them being able to run free and have fun without her having to worry that they'd be in danger from large grazing animals. It seems so unfair that grass is getting priority over people. Has it come to the point when we are just an inconvenience when it comes to 'managing' nature. I used to be a volunteer with countryside services until I started to question the annually cutting back of healthy young tree saplings to artificially protect areas where nature was doing it hardest to cover with woodland. This selection is the current in thinking but no doubt at some point all this will change as a new theory on conservation takes presidence. Meanwhile why not just let young and old enjoy the freedom to admire the views, enjoy the sound of crickets in the long grass and stop trying to manage everything. No doubt the strimmers will still be out cutting back the woodland paths and decapitating the orchids as they did this year, or are we paying for that separately?
Sorry to go on so but I feel we are banging our heads on a bureaucratic machine driven by people who have no knowledge of the strong community spirit we enjoy on the Bryn. We do all in our power to protect it, notify the authorities of problems, clear litter, cans and broken glass. I don't feel the council has any idea how much we actually save them with our efforts and good will.
Sincerely your
Dear Mr Jones
Thank you for your continued support of our battle to keep Bryn Euryn an unrestricted open public space. You previously mentioned you would be interested in viewing the covenants regarding the area when they arrived. We have posted most of the pages on our blog site, the rest to follow shortly. Tony Morgan has shown me the letter you received from Stuart Davies and I would like to add my comments to the ones he has already sent to you.
I feel that the council are rather missing the point in so far as the Bryn is unique in the area because it has no restrictions due to animal grazing. Only Eirias Park provides a similar open space to take our children and dogs, but that required a car or bus ride and is also earmarked for further developments in the near future. The beach has restrictions for part of the year and obviously is governed by the tides.
As for the comment about people may like to see the animals, 'see' maybe but having to walk through them may be a totally different proposition. We are surrounded by grazing livestock on every hillside, field and nature reserve so I feel these people are already well catered for. The recent article criticising the dog walkers for allowing their dogs to foul the area (the minority I might add) makes no mention of what it would be like with livestock, and who would clear that?
My neighbour who has no dog is irate about the whole idea from the point of view of animal and children safety. It would have to be very impressive fencing and gates to keep all dogs out while walking in the woods. So will we then be required to keep all dogs on leads over the whole area? Also who's going to protect livestock from drunken youths late at night? Would this be shifting the bill for strimming from the council to the police, and any farmer can tell them that fences need maintaining and livestock need water and regular checks.
I met a young woman today who has been exploring the Bryn ready to bring her children during the holidays. She was looking forward to them being able to run free and have fun without her having to worry that they'd be in danger from large grazing animals. It seems so unfair that grass is getting priority over people. Has it come to the point when we are just an inconvenience when it comes to 'managing' nature. I used to be a volunteer with countryside services until I started to question the annually cutting back of healthy young tree saplings to artificially protect areas where nature was doing it hardest to cover with woodland. This selection is the current in thinking but no doubt at some point all this will change as a new theory on conservation takes presidence. Meanwhile why not just let young and old enjoy the freedom to admire the views, enjoy the sound of crickets in the long grass and stop trying to manage everything. No doubt the strimmers will still be out cutting back the woodland paths and decapitating the orchids as they did this year, or are we paying for that separately?
Sorry to go on so but I feel we are banging our heads on a bureaucratic machine driven by people who have no knowledge of the strong community spirit we enjoy on the Bryn. We do all in our power to protect it, notify the authorities of problems, clear litter, cans and broken glass. I don't feel the council has any idea how much we actually save them with our efforts and good will.
Sincerely your
Monday 13 July 2009
Sunday 12 July 2009
Lease Page 2
Next page, if anyone fancies having a go typing out what it actually says feel free, no prizes but it could be interesting!
Bryn Lease
Following a freedom of information request the Council have now provided a copy of the lease to one of the Save Our Bryn supporters, copies below, there's a few pages so it might take a while to post them all
Friday 10 July 2009
Dog mess comments from Dave Jones Blog
There's a few recent comments worth re-posting here
http://davidjonesblog.com/2009/06/22/hands-off-bryn-euryn/#comments
JessicaJuly 9, 2009 at 5:56 pm
In today’s North Wales Weekly News there is a totally biased article with comments from Phil Edwards, of course not linked to his support for plans to put livestock on the Bryn! The I walk the Bryn twice daily and it is not that bad, I’ve just walked down Dinerth Road and seen two piles of dog poo, this is a universal problem, no worse at the Bryn than other places, considering the number of dogs that go there. I’ve never seen these places where ‘the air is thick flies and the stench of dog mess’, if you want to see flies and smells wait until you get livestock and manure there! Pauline Jones is totally deluded to say ‘nobody clears up’, I and the 40 or 50 dog owners I know all do, such exaggeration does her no credit.
Tony MorganJuly 9, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I have just seen the article in the North Wales News, supported by comments from Phil Edwards of Plaid Cymru.We all know this article is a huge exaggeration and would do credit to the tabloids!!It is strange that after my neighbours and I walking the Bryn for 60 years in some cases, the dog mess issue should suddenly become news, could there be some ulterior motive?I only hope that come election time people will remember who supported them, rather than a few patches of grass.
Beth BowenJuly 10, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Having read the article in the weekly news titled ‘Beautiful nature reserve blighted by dog mess’ the only word that sprang to mind seeing the smiling face of a well known councillor was ‘vindictive’. It made the area sound like an open toilet, which it most certainly isn’t. Yes the field at the bottom is used by people who sit in their cars and just open the door for their dogs to relieve themselves before driving away again. I personally haven’t seen a dog warden for months. The rest of the Bryn certainly is not as described. Also excuse me P Jones saying “it is awful nobody clears up after each other”, well yes actually they do. I noticed a pile on the drive of the house up there and removed it to the nearby bin. Likewise when I see piles on the paths and pavements. Instead of moaning to the papers why don’t you do something about is yourself. Why do people expect someone else to act for them, moaning about litter, dog mess etc, while not lifting a finger to do anything about it?The soon to be formalised Bryn Euryn Users Ass will promote responsable desposal of dog waste to all our members and encourage others to do likewise. It is obvious by the level of use of the bins and numbers of people carrying bags, that yet again it is the minority giving us all a bad name. God help us if they introduce grazing because then the whingers will really know what stench and flies are all about. What next, all dogs on leads or a total ban. It would appear that some people will not tolerate any opposition to their cosy little plans and set out to punish those who try to put forward a different point of view.
http://davidjonesblog.com/2009/06/22/hands-off-bryn-euryn/#comments
JessicaJuly 9, 2009 at 5:56 pm
In today’s North Wales Weekly News there is a totally biased article with comments from Phil Edwards, of course not linked to his support for plans to put livestock on the Bryn! The I walk the Bryn twice daily and it is not that bad, I’ve just walked down Dinerth Road and seen two piles of dog poo, this is a universal problem, no worse at the Bryn than other places, considering the number of dogs that go there. I’ve never seen these places where ‘the air is thick flies and the stench of dog mess’, if you want to see flies and smells wait until you get livestock and manure there! Pauline Jones is totally deluded to say ‘nobody clears up’, I and the 40 or 50 dog owners I know all do, such exaggeration does her no credit.
Tony MorganJuly 9, 2009 at 6:02 pm
I have just seen the article in the North Wales News, supported by comments from Phil Edwards of Plaid Cymru.We all know this article is a huge exaggeration and would do credit to the tabloids!!It is strange that after my neighbours and I walking the Bryn for 60 years in some cases, the dog mess issue should suddenly become news, could there be some ulterior motive?I only hope that come election time people will remember who supported them, rather than a few patches of grass.
Beth BowenJuly 10, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Having read the article in the weekly news titled ‘Beautiful nature reserve blighted by dog mess’ the only word that sprang to mind seeing the smiling face of a well known councillor was ‘vindictive’. It made the area sound like an open toilet, which it most certainly isn’t. Yes the field at the bottom is used by people who sit in their cars and just open the door for their dogs to relieve themselves before driving away again. I personally haven’t seen a dog warden for months. The rest of the Bryn certainly is not as described. Also excuse me P Jones saying “it is awful nobody clears up after each other”, well yes actually they do. I noticed a pile on the drive of the house up there and removed it to the nearby bin. Likewise when I see piles on the paths and pavements. Instead of moaning to the papers why don’t you do something about is yourself. Why do people expect someone else to act for them, moaning about litter, dog mess etc, while not lifting a finger to do anything about it?The soon to be formalised Bryn Euryn Users Ass will promote responsable desposal of dog waste to all our members and encourage others to do likewise. It is obvious by the level of use of the bins and numbers of people carrying bags, that yet again it is the minority giving us all a bad name. God help us if they introduce grazing because then the whingers will really know what stench and flies are all about. What next, all dogs on leads or a total ban. It would appear that some people will not tolerate any opposition to their cosy little plans and set out to punish those who try to put forward a different point of view.
Llandudno record producer Gordon Lorenz fined for dog fouling
The trouble is a few bad owners give us and their dogs a bad name.
Much of the mess to the Bryn is close to the car park, reading the storey below sounds very familiar to how a few use the Bryn car park: -
Llandudno record producer Gordon Lorenz fined for dog fouling
http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2009/07/09/llandudno-record-producer-gordon-lorenz-fined-for-dog-fouling-55243-24105857/
Magistrates in Llandudno heard dog warden Barbara Cowling was parked in her van on March 24. She saw the producer’s silver Mercedes drive into a car park and stop nearby.
Prosecutor Stuart Dunn said: “Barbara Cowling saw a dog jump out of the vehicle, run onto a grass area and foul. The gentleman made no attempt to get out.
“He drove forward and called the dog, which jumped back into the vehicle, then he drove off. Barbara Cowling recognised him as Mr Lorenz, as she’d dealt with him on several other occasions.”
Much of the mess to the Bryn is close to the car park, reading the storey below sounds very familiar to how a few use the Bryn car park: -
Llandudno record producer Gordon Lorenz fined for dog fouling
http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2009/07/09/llandudno-record-producer-gordon-lorenz-fined-for-dog-fouling-55243-24105857/
Magistrates in Llandudno heard dog warden Barbara Cowling was parked in her van on March 24. She saw the producer’s silver Mercedes drive into a car park and stop nearby.
Prosecutor Stuart Dunn said: “Barbara Cowling saw a dog jump out of the vehicle, run onto a grass area and foul. The gentleman made no attempt to get out.
“He drove forward and called the dog, which jumped back into the vehicle, then he drove off. Barbara Cowling recognised him as Mr Lorenz, as she’d dealt with him on several other occasions.”
Dog mess is a blight on Rhos-on-Sea beauty spot
http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/conwy-county-news/local-conwy-news/2009/07/09/dog-mess-is-a-blight-on-rhos-on-sea-beauty-spot-55243-24106464/
Jul 9 2009 by Richard Evans, North Wales Weekly News
A POPULAR nature reserve is being blighted by dog dirt, say pet owners and walkers.
Bryn Euryn in Rhos-on-Sea is popular walking spot for many who use the hill to unwind and take in the breathtaking views.
But those who use the reserve say in some areas the air is thick with flies and the stench of dog mess.
Bryn Euryn is already in the midst of a hot debate as the council has proposed to graze livestock on the land to help manage grass land. Dog owners fear this could then see areas fenced off to stop dogs roaming near horses, ponies or sheep.
Mum Pauline Jones from Rhos-on-Sea takes her Jack Russell for daily walks at Bryn Euryn and said the dog mess was spoiling the area.
“It is terrible up there, it is awful nobody clears up after each other, it is really bad,” she said.
“It is a beautiful place, but it is blighted by dog poo, especially with the hot weather we’ve had recently, it attracts flies. If people can’t be responsible for their dogs they shouldn’t have dogs!”
A 31-year-old dad from Glan Conwy agreed: “It gets stuck on my feet, it gets stuck on my daughter’s feet, it is disgusting.
“It is a concern because obviously there is a risk of disease when you’ve got small children – it can lead to blindness, I walk there quite often but I’m getting to the end of my tether.”
Mark Evans, 30, from Colwyn Bay, regularly walks his dog Lady at the nature reserve.
“I always pick up after my dog, people should be responsible for their animals,” he said.
“There is a dog bin in the car park, but there is never enough bins, so that could help. The mess is horrible as it is a nice place to go for a walk but the dog dirt just spoils it.”
Rhos-on-Sea councillor Phil Edwards said the problem was also prevalent at a new children’s playground at Brookfield Drive in Rhos-on-Sea. Cllr Edwards called for the council to take a tougher stance on the matter.
“Dog mess can cause blindness in children, it is totally irresponsible. Dog owners are to blame, the council will really have to look at this seriously because dog fouling is becoming a huge problem in a lot of areas.”
Cllr Phillip Evans is Conwy’s cabinet member for public protection and said that the council would certainly act to prosecute repeat offenders.
“If people report it to the council they do take it seriously. The dog wardens will go out and carry out observations, and people are given fixed penalties of £75. If somebody is detected having committed the offence more than once we will prosecute and they face greater sentences in court.”
To report dog fouling to Conwy County Council’s dog warden contact 01492 575222.
richard.evans
Jul 9 2009 by Richard Evans, North Wales Weekly News
A POPULAR nature reserve is being blighted by dog dirt, say pet owners and walkers.
Bryn Euryn in Rhos-on-Sea is popular walking spot for many who use the hill to unwind and take in the breathtaking views.
But those who use the reserve say in some areas the air is thick with flies and the stench of dog mess.
Bryn Euryn is already in the midst of a hot debate as the council has proposed to graze livestock on the land to help manage grass land. Dog owners fear this could then see areas fenced off to stop dogs roaming near horses, ponies or sheep.
Mum Pauline Jones from Rhos-on-Sea takes her Jack Russell for daily walks at Bryn Euryn and said the dog mess was spoiling the area.
“It is terrible up there, it is awful nobody clears up after each other, it is really bad,” she said.
“It is a beautiful place, but it is blighted by dog poo, especially with the hot weather we’ve had recently, it attracts flies. If people can’t be responsible for their dogs they shouldn’t have dogs!”
A 31-year-old dad from Glan Conwy agreed: “It gets stuck on my feet, it gets stuck on my daughter’s feet, it is disgusting.
“It is a concern because obviously there is a risk of disease when you’ve got small children – it can lead to blindness, I walk there quite often but I’m getting to the end of my tether.”
Mark Evans, 30, from Colwyn Bay, regularly walks his dog Lady at the nature reserve.
“I always pick up after my dog, people should be responsible for their animals,” he said.
“There is a dog bin in the car park, but there is never enough bins, so that could help. The mess is horrible as it is a nice place to go for a walk but the dog dirt just spoils it.”
Rhos-on-Sea councillor Phil Edwards said the problem was also prevalent at a new children’s playground at Brookfield Drive in Rhos-on-Sea. Cllr Edwards called for the council to take a tougher stance on the matter.
“Dog mess can cause blindness in children, it is totally irresponsible. Dog owners are to blame, the council will really have to look at this seriously because dog fouling is becoming a huge problem in a lot of areas.”
Cllr Phillip Evans is Conwy’s cabinet member for public protection and said that the council would certainly act to prosecute repeat offenders.
“If people report it to the council they do take it seriously. The dog wardens will go out and carry out observations, and people are given fixed penalties of £75. If somebody is detected having committed the offence more than once we will prosecute and they face greater sentences in court.”
To report dog fouling to Conwy County Council’s dog warden contact 01492 575222.
richard.evans
Thursday 9 July 2009
Dog Control Orders Consultation
Have a look at this council website, how long before they suggest the same for the Bryn?
I get the feeling someone doesn't like dogs.
Conwy County Borough Council propose to make dog control orders in the areas of Llanfairfechan Beach and Llansannan. Below you will find specific information about this proposal in each area and how you can make a representation. You can also view a map showing the exclusion zones.
http://www.conwy.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=680&doc=24514
I get the feeling someone doesn't like dogs.
Conwy County Borough Council propose to make dog control orders in the areas of Llanfairfechan Beach and Llansannan. Below you will find specific information about this proposal in each area and how you can make a representation. You can also view a map showing the exclusion zones.
http://www.conwy.gov.uk/doc.asp?cat=680&doc=24514
Friday 3 July 2009
Management Committee Meeting
There is to be a special meeting of the Bryn Euryn Management Committee on 20th July to discuss the grazing issue. Following this it is proposed to hold a public meeting for all interested parties.
Anyone wishing to help form the Users Association, or who has experiences they could share with us, please contact save.our.bryn@hotmail.co.uk.
Anyone wishing to help form the Users Association, or who has experiences they could share with us, please contact save.our.bryn@hotmail.co.uk.
Wednesday 1 July 2009
Have Your Say Questionnaire - Latest Update
170 questionnaires have now been completed, all against grazing, you may recall one was initially in favour - a swift phone call has confirmed this was indeed a mistake!
Of the 170 returns todate all who expressed an opinion were in favour of the creation of a Bryn Euryn User Association and in favour of this Association being represented on the council's Bryn Euryn Management Committee and 115 have asked to join the Bryn Euryn User Association when formed.
Next step for Save Our Bryn is to set up the Assoication, agree a draft constitution etc. Hopefully we can have our first meeting soon, watch this space!
Of the 170 returns todate all who expressed an opinion were in favour of the creation of a Bryn Euryn User Association and in favour of this Association being represented on the council's Bryn Euryn Management Committee and 115 have asked to join the Bryn Euryn User Association when formed.
Next step for Save Our Bryn is to set up the Assoication, agree a draft constitution etc. Hopefully we can have our first meeting soon, watch this space!
Bryn Euryn Protestors Battle on!
Another good write up in this weeks Poineer
Link to half the article below, the second page seems to be missing
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/Bryn-Euryn-Protestors-Battle-on.5417234.jp
There's also 2 good letters on the letters page.
Link to half the article below, the second page seems to be missing
http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/Bryn-Euryn-Protestors-Battle-on.5417234.jp
There's also 2 good letters on the letters page.
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